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Who’s More Liberated: the Christian or the Non-Believer? – Special Report (Part 1 of 2)

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Who’s More Liberated? (Part 1 of 2)

When some people leave the Christian faith, or deny God altogether, they often say things like, “I feel so liberated. Now I’m free!” We hear this so often in our discussions with Atheists we thought we would delve into the question: Who is more liberated and free: the Christian or the Non-Believer?

Why did the Christian not feel liberated and free in the first place?

We also must answer the questions, why did the Christian not feel liberated and free in the first place? And, what went wrong in their instruction for them to feel otherwise? Read on.

For the sake of clarity, let’s define Christians as true Christ-followers and the non-believers as everyone else (including those who say they follow Christ, but in every other respect they think, talk, and behave no differently than the rest of the world).

Now the question is who is more liberated. Dictionary.com defines liberation in these ways:

  • to set free, as from imprisonment or bondage
  • to free from control by a foreign or oppressive governing body
  • to free from social or economic constraints or discrimination

So we have this word … liberated. On it seems to hang the balance of the Christian faith versus all other forms of faith or even the absence of faith. Many of us who are Christ-followers could give testimonies of being freed from an imprisoning bondage.

To help us understand bondage and liberation more clearly, let’s go back in time and look at the most recent example in our history…the slavery and liberation of African Americans in the USA.

History of U.S. Slavery

When Lincoln first signed the Emancipation Proclamation, many African Americans didn’t automatically begin to live free.

The United States of America has an ugly history of slavery that revolves around the black Africans. They were slaves in the U.S. and went through a valiant battle for their freedom. But when they got it, things didn’t quite go as they — or anyone else expected.

History tells how Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation to start the process of eventually freeing all of the slaves in the country. When he first signed it, many of them didn’t automatically begin to live free. There were a variety of reasons for this.

Perhaps the biggest surprise was the slaves who didn’t want to be free. They had masters (i.e. slave owners) whom they saw as decent and reasonable. They figured they had a pretty good life as slaves … and they weren’t willing to trade it for an unknown life of freedom. So they continued as voluntary slaves.

But the majority of slaves who didn’t live free when they were legally free had much more tragic stories. In some cases, the slave owners didn’t want them to know they were free. So they hid the truth from them, and blocked the slaves from having any knowledge that they were free. In other cases, there were slaves who knew they were free … but their masters (i.e., owners) lied to them and told them they were still slaves.

In some instances, slaves found out they were free and tried to live free. But their former masters (i.e., owners) would coerce them into continuing to live as slaves. Usually this would happen when they tried to leave the plantation where they had been enslaved. The former master (i.e., owner) would chase after them. When he caught them, they were beaten and dragged back to the plantation to continue living as slaves.

Now whose story would you consider to be more tragic? The slaves who knew they were free, but had benevolent masters and voluntarily surrendered their freedom? Or the slaves who continued to live as slaves because of their own ignorance or because of oppression? Most of us, if we’re truthful, would probably agree that the slave who had a benevolent master and wished to continue serving him might have had the happiest ending here.

Human Slavery vs. Liberty

To be free, they each had to claim their freedom!

The point is that just because the world (and the law) defined them as free didn’t mean that all of America’s slaves actually lived any differently. It took something else. They each had to claim their freedom. They each had to access and appropriate their freedom. Sometimes that took a fight. It often took courage. They were plunging into a life of unknown outcomes. Few, if any, black Africans had ever lived free in American society. Nobody knew how that would look or how it might turn out.

There are some very strong similarities in this story and the modern concept of liberty. I have worked for years in a recovery ministry called Celebrate Recovery.  It operates on many of the principles of secular twelve-step programs, but uses Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) as the basis for its core tenets. Its objective is to free people from the bondage of addictions, compulsive behaviors and other hurts, habits and hang-ups that keep us from living the lives that God intended.

Inevitably, the people who participate in that recovery ministry have stories that are characteristic of the American slavery experience from the 1800’s. At first, they believe they are free. As adults they can make supposedly free choices to do things like abuse alcohol or use pornography. At the beginning of their relationship with these vices, they believed that being able to choose to do these things was a right or freedom that they were simply exercising. But in the end – when they sought help from a recovery ministry – most have no trouble admitting that the vice which they thought represented freedom and liberty had indeed enslaved them.

As I’ve worked in this program, I’ve been able to make a rather odd observation. It occurs when the participant starts to walk in true freedom. Invariably, they will come upon a major milestone in life, such as Christmas. And as they do, they will make a comment that goes something like this: “I’m a bit nervous about Christmas this year. It’s the first year I can remember where I was sober. The truth is, I don’t know how to do Christmas sober. So I’m afraid. What will Christmas be like?”

What they’re really saying of course is that they don’t know how to do Christmas free. They don’t know how truly liberated people live at Christmas or how they celebrate Christmas. It’s a whole new paradigm for these people. And it goes without saying that you could plug any holiday or milestone, Easter, wedding, anniversary, family reunion, etc. into that sentence and get the same effect. People don’t know how to do life free.

Freedom & Liberation

I suspect the same may be true of Christianity. There may be people who are trapped in bondage. They may be aware of the Lord. And they may believe that He exists. But they don’t really know Him. And because they are ignorant of what His freedom looks like, they are willing to settle for what they have. They aren’t particularly interested in knowing how others live.

Some people are intimidated by the proposition of freedom…they fear the unknown.

To these people, liberation is an intimidating proposition … that they aren’t so willing to embrace. They know how to live with what they’ve got. They’ve developed coping mechanisms that, in their opinion, work. And because they don’t know how anything else works — they fear the unknown. Moreover, they are unwilling to walk into that unknown. What if the Lord doesn’t meet me there? What if I don’t know how to act? What if I can’t handle it? Their minds are filled with those “What if …?” statements.

The real issue for most people in bondage then is realizing what freedom looks like. How do truly liberated people really live? Most of us would agree that people who are truly free in life probably live lives that aren’t encumbered by some of the boundaries that the rest of us must live with.

Rich people, for example, aren’t bound by the need to work. They aren’t bound by insufficient funds to satisfy whatever whim may strike them. Go anywhere. Buy anything. Do anything. That is our perception of what freedom looks like.

But ask people who live that kind of life. More often than not, they’ll tell you that wealth is a burden. They’ll tell you that it taints their relationships. Maybe they’re afraid to get too close to people, for example, out of fear that those people are only after their money (versus their friendship). Maybe they find themselves arguing about money – or being afraid to lose it (because they don’t know how to be poor).

I counseled a man once, who sat in my office at the church and sobbed about what an immense burden his wealth was. He hated the mansion and saw it as a prison. He loathed riding in the limousine – and yearned for the ability to just drive around town by himself. He believed that his immense wealth had ruined his kids’ lives.

So the point here is that the concept of being free, or being liberated, tends to be both subjective and abstract. By that I mean that the truth of worldly freedom tends to be relative … it is designed by its circumstances. At the same time, the world’s definition of freedom is so abstract that few can really comprehend or attain it.

Read Part 2 for the rest of the story…

Open Letter to Christians from a Reasonable Non-Theist

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Changing the Face of Christianity Introduction

We recently received a letter from a “reasonable” non-theist, that we thought was worth sharing with our readers. When I say “reasonable”, I mean he is simply sharing his opinions on the topics we are passionate about.

After reading this letter, share what you can relate to and what WE can learn from his perspective.

He isn’t telling us we are wrong or stupid, he isn’t suggesting we throw away our Bible, and he isn’t attempting to discredit our beliefs. He is just sharing HIS perspective on the issues.

I think there are things we can learn from him about negative Christian stereotypes and how WE create them. It’s also important to note that he doesn’t claim to represent all of atheism/agnosticism/non-theism, similar to how our site doesn’t pretend to represent ALL of Christianity or Christian opinion.

If you choose to comment on this article, and we hope you do, PLEASE remember this is NOT a debate. Instead, let’s read/listen with an open mind and a humble heart. I encourage you to share what you can relate to and most importantly…what WE can learn from his perspective. Now, his open letter to Christians:

Open Letter to Christians from a Reasonable Non-Theist

Author: Anonymous for family privacy concerns we respect.

You are right about the negative stereotypes associated with Christianity in secular America.  Some of it is deserved, some of it is undeserved.  While I don’t agree with some of what you say on your site, I do believe I grasp the spirit of your intentions.

I have a confession:  Last week, when Congresswoman Giffords and several others were shot in Arizona, the first thing I said to my wife was “I bet the shooter is a conservative fundamentalist.”  My thoughts were wrong, however private I kept them.  Regardless of his theology, or lack there of, the man is clearly insane.  Clearly, you are not a violent fundamentalist, so this isn’t an apology.

Equal Rights and Freedoms

If one man’s rights are denied, then all of our rights are vulnerable.

I understand the difference between hateful religious groups like (WBC) Westboro Baptist Church, “The Family” (who are way more influential and dangerous than WBC, and well intentioned Christians such as yourself.  And you as a self professed former Atheist, I hope you understand that we (non-theists) are not intent on eliminating Christians or religious people, or taking away their rights.  On the contrary.  We don’t want your rights threatened anymore than we want our own threatened.  If one man’s rights are denied, then all of our rights are vulnerable.

This is where I see the biggest gap between Christians and Atheists.  If freedom of religion were taken away, and you were not allowed to congregate in a church, or pray to your god, most atheists I know would have a serious problem with that, and we would willingly stand up for your rights, even though we think your beliefs are incorrect.

On the other hand, it seems that Christians are very fast to contribute to the denial of our own rights to not acknowledge a god.  You won’t see many Christians fighting for separation of church and state.  You will be much more likely to see Christians redefining the phrase to fall in step with their beliefs.  This is nothing unusual for Christians, as Christians seem pretty consistent in forming an argument around a predetermined conclusion:  “God is the source of all that’s good, therefore nothing that promotes god can be bad,” or “God loves his children, so there’s nothing wrong with a public school teacher leading the class in a prayer.”

Prayer in School-Be Consistent

Had the Principal led the school in an Islamic prayer the Christian teachers would have had a fit.  This mentality and interruption of consistency and reason is what bothers Atheists about Christians the most.

On the issue of school prayer, there is not an atheist I know who feels that kids don’t have the right to private prayer with their god.  It is a different matter entirely when a public school teacher leads the class in a public prayer.  This is wrong, and it’s equal to the state promoting one religion over the other.  I think you can probably agree with this.

However, during a friend’s first day teaching at her new public school this past summer, the Principal decided that he would lead the teachers in an open prayer.  Being that we’re in North Carolina, I’m fairly certain that most of the staff is Christian of one denomination or another, but my friend is agnostic.  She was afraid of objecting to the prayer, and I can’t blame her.  Her job was hard to find, and she didn’t want to put a target on herself.  But none of her fellow Christian teachers seemed to mind in the least.

I am willing to bet that not a single one of them saw anything wrong with what they were doing.  However, had the Principal led the school in an Islamic prayer, my friend would have been equally as uncomfortable with the prayer, and your Christian teachers would have had a fit.  This type of mentality, this interruption of consistency and reason is what bothers Atheists about Christians the most.

Belief or Disbelief in God is Important

Feelings and thoughts on god are very, very important to us.

That being said, it’s in our differences that we see our similarities.  While we can disagree on the existence of god, it is quite apparent that our feelings and thoughts on god are very, very important to us.  You will be hard pressed to find a person who claims to be an atheist who hasn’t spent a considerable amount of time deciding that god isn’t real.  It is a major journey in one’s life to truly come to theological peace.  I never arrived at peace with my theology until I decided that god wasn’t real.

Former Christian, Now Atheist (non-theist)

I grew up attending church, sometimes 4 times a week.

I grew up attending church, sometimes 4 times a week (twice on Sunday, Wednesday night for bible study, Friday night for youth group).  I attended Wesleyan, Baptist, Methodist, and Christian Missionary Alliance churches at different times regularly throughout my life.  Wesleyan until I was about 9 years old, Alliance until I was 13, and then bouncing between Methodist and Baptist (because our Methodist church didn’t have a youth group) until half way through college.  I didn’t “lose my faith” so much as I found myself, and I found reason.  I found that I could not reconcile my skepticism with faith.  I am happy accepting this.  Happier than I was when I was struggling with something that made no sense to me.  I’m now living a life that makes sense to me.

Grandfather (Wesleyan Minister) Was Great Influence

My grandfather was a Wesleyan minister, and he was and continues to be one of the greatest influences on how I live my life.  When I was a kid, my grandfather represented Jesus to me, and even though he’s been dead for 20 years, I still hear people say that about him.  He was a great man.  And he was a great man because he was a servant.  He was kind, he was gentle, he was loving, he was giving, and he was genuine.  He wasn’t a perfect man, but he was as close as I’ve ever known.  He was also a reasonable man.

Jesus gives no exceptions when he tells people to be gentle and kind.

He was sincerely pro-life by the definition of the word, and not by the socially accepted meaning of it.  By that I mean that he truly believed that EVERY life was precious, not just the life of an unborn baby, or a person in a vegetative state.  He decided that to be TRULY pro-life, one must oppose the death penalty.  In the red letters in the gospels, Jesus gives no exceptions when he tells people to be gentle and kind.  He doesn’t say “be kind to all, except for people who cut you off in traffic.”  Or, “treat everyone well, unless they were convicted of murder.”  To me, my grandpa represented this better than anybody I’ve known.  He lived it.

Not Many Christians To Admire Anymore

I don’t see the love and the gentleness and thoughtfulness that defined my grandpa.

Since he’s left my life, I look at most Christians and I see people who are looking for justification to condemn, or just a massive cluster of exceptions and faulty ideas of what love is.  I hardly see anything I admire anymore.  I see character traits that I’ve fought my entire life to remove from myself, to improve myself away from.  I don’t see the love and the gentleness and thoughtfulness that defined my grandpa.  Maybe I’m naive, but I expect people who claim to have “the answer” to live a life that’s worth striving towards.

What I see instead is justification of exclusion, and often celebration of Prosperity Theology.  What we perceive from the outside is that you’re saying to us, and to everyone who isn’t already in your group “we know you’re flawed, we know you’re a sinner, we are too, join us and we’ll help you find salvation.”  What I’m not hearing or seeing is “we love you, and we care about who you are and we want to know you and what you have to say.”  Christians aren’t interested in what anybody has to say, they’re only interested in telling everyone “how it is.”  That’s not conversation, and it’s rarely helpful.

Evangelicals often celebrate the most cynical pundits and celebrities who sound and act the opposite of gentle, kind, and genuine.  Sarah Palin criticizes Michelle Obama for promoting healthy exercise and eating habits in children (a Presidentially encouraged idea since 1956), and the next thing I know I’m hearing conservative Christians praise and support her crazy words about how “the government can’t tell me how to raise my kids.”

Glenn Beck villanizes half of the American population, speaks about apocalyptic-like hard times, and how everybody should be prepared and purchase a product that he advertises called “Food Insurance.”  The next thing you know, the Mormon owned company “Food Insurance” gets a massive boost in sales by the Evangelical community, thanks to Beck’s fear mongering sales pitch (btw, you can assemble the contents of a Food Insurance package yourself at about 1/3 of the cost).  I’m saying this as somebody who doesn’t like Keith Olbermann either.  These aren’t good people.

A History Lesson (Segregation, Slavery, Gay Marriage)

Thirty years down the road, these opponents of gay rights are going to be looked at the same way as the racist segregationists.

Do you know that many preachers and Christians stood against integration in the south, or of abolishment of slavery, only now to be looked at shamefully?  How many Christians today would proudly take up either position?  There were no new books of the bible written between then and now, it’s the same book.  And today we have Christians who proudly support Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and who proudly “stand up” against gay marriage with the whole “what’s next, we let a guy marry a turtle” slippery slope argument. Thirty years down the road, these opponents of gay rights are going to be looked at the same way as the racist segregationists.  Your grand children are going to come home after civics class and ask you if you were for or against gay rights.

Are you going to say “well, it was complicated,” when it will be abundantly clear to you that gays with equal rights doesn’t hurt society?  In fairness, there were also plenty of Christians and churches who supported civil rights all along.  I know the Wesleyan Church has always stood against slavery and mistreatment of African Americans.  But the point is, several denominations of Christians were absolutely wrong, and they did so much damage to so many people.  That fact still hasn’t changed, and it continues today.

Conclusion

We both seem to agree that being a good Christian starts by striving to be a good person.

Anyhow, aside from the fact that we simply don’t believe in a god, those are many of the reasons why we have a problem with Christianity. Dan Merchant, the creator of “Lord, Save Us From Your Followers“, seems to have a pretty decent idea of how to be a good Christian.  We both seem to agree that being a good Christian starts by striving to be a good person. Have you seen Dan’s film, or read anything by him?  I would highly recommend it to you. He’s an excellent example of a Christian who is really striving to live like Christ.

Thanks for your time, and best of luck to you. I certainly appreciate what you’re trying to do.

CFC Response:

Thanks SO much for sharing your story and experience in and out of the Christian faith. You raise some very important things for us to consider and work through. And yes, we love Dan Merchant’s work. His book/DVD is on our Recommended Reading List. His movie is also an “instant play” on Netflix…so anyone with Netflix can watch it now! Thanks again and we hope you continue to engage with us as we continue to engage with non-Christians and repair the damage that has caused so much animosity and mistrust between us. Peace to you and your family.

Thou Shalt Not – What You Are Never Allowed To Say To Non-Christians

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Photo by Identity Photogr@phy

Thou Shalt Not Say…

What I’m presenting is simply a list of things that enrage the other side

I’ve learned many things over the years about what NOT to say to an Atheist, a non-Christian homosexual, or any other non-believer. I call them the “Thou Shalt Not Say Commandments”. We should always be prepared to speak the truth, and I’m NOT suggesting you hold your tongue when faced with false teaching. What I’m presenting is simply a list of things that enrage the other side. Things that set them off. Things that end discussion and cause resentment instead of the opposite, which is hopefully one of your goals.

Consider Where The Conversation Will Go

Do you want to continue a conversation with the other side, or do you want to end it and never return?

Like when you are on a first date with a new lady, and she asks “How do I look in this dress?” There are good responses and there are insanely stupid responses that will end the “date” immediately. Consider my suggestions in that context. Ever been asked, “Do I look fat in this dress?” Be VERY careful :-). Do you want to continue a conversation with the other side, or do you want to end it and never return? Be wise is all I’m suggesting.

Be Prepared and Think First

Whenever we speak, we need to be prepared for the response we are likely to receive. If you are an adult, you consider this BEFORE you speak. So again, feel free to speak the truth…I encourage you to do so. Just do so with full knowledge of the response you’ll get.

I’m only going to list a few here, and I’d like you to finish the list with your own experience. Share your own “Thou Shalt Not’s”. When we are through, I will prepare a white paper to distribute so we all know the ground rules. Again, let me know your thoughts.

Thou Shalt Not! Commandments

Thou Shalt Not Say…

Quoting the Bible to an atheist is like them trying to counsel or correct you by quoting from Lord of the Rings

  1. Homosexuality is a sin (It is a sin, just like many other sins heterosexual sinners commit everyday, but we are not allowed to say it)
  2. Homosexuality is a choice (There is a lot of debate here, but be prepared for war if you ever say it)
  3. “Stop cussing please“, or “can we just be polite?” (Google “Tone Trolling” for more info. Whereas in evolved cultures and societies common decency in communication is a virtue, the opposite is often true when talking with the other side). You are not allowed to be offended. Only they can be offended by your desire to be civil. You are not allowed to control what they say, but they are allowed to control what you say by suggesting you stop trying to make them play nicey nice. My only real suggestion here is to live and practice what YOU believe. If you think you should be nice during a conversation…then be nice. If they aren’t nice back…consider it the price for engaging with someone with a vastly different worldview.
  4. “You are going to go to hell if you don’t accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. AND, what have you got to lose? If we are right, then you are saved. If we are wrong, you are no worse off.” Atheists and rationalists have a name for this argument. It’s called “Pascal’s Wager“. It’s a little too involved to explain here, but I encourage you to read about it on wikipedia. Now, usually this argument is not met with a lot of anger back. However, they’ve heard it many times before and will quickly zap you for being uninformed about the common use of this by believers. In truth, it’s not a good argument. So, I agree with the opposition on this one. There are many stronger apologetic arguments, and this one just isn’t necessary or helpful.
  5. Never Ever Ever Quote the Bible. John 3:6 says… OK, when we are in our cozy Christian circles, quote the Bible all you want. In fact, feel free to quote the Bible to atheists. Just accept the fact that they don’t regard the Bible as legitimate. Speak the Truth? YES! But quoting the Bible to an atheist is like them trying to counsel or correct you by quoting from Lord of the Rings or The Da Vinci Code. If they believe the Bible is fictional like those best-sellers, it won’t aid you in your conversation. If you aren’t sure about this, ask first “Do you believe the Bible is true?” If they say no, then talk to them using sources that they DO accept as truth. Quote from Darwin’s Origin of Species. Or quote from a book by Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens. They may actually hear you.

Again, I’ve got a lot more of these, but I want to hear your list.

A Productive Conversation Between Atheists and Christians

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Can We Talk?

Let’s suppose we could put our differences aside for a little while and just have a productive conversation together, what should Atheists and Christians talk about?

Let’s put our differences aside and talk about ways we can work together for the common good of society.

We have an opportunity in our future to have such a public conversation and we are looking for topics of discussion.

We want to avoid the usual suspects: Does God Exist? etc… Instead, let’s talk about ways we can work together for the common good of society. Let’s talk about what we have in common. Let’s talk about…(your turn to fill in the blank). Or if you would rather see us DO something together instead of talk, share your thoughts on that too using the comment area below.

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