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You are here: Home / Archives for atheists

9 Questions Atheists Might Find Insulting

February 12, 2014 By Joe Kim 2 Comments

After taking a hiatus from reading atheist-leaning material, I happened across this article today and decided to respond to it:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/9-questions-atheists-might-find-insulting-and-answers

Sometimes, the truth hurts and comes across as offensive no matter what, and it’s our duty to still speak the truth. However, other times it serves no purpose other than to shut the other person down from even listening at all.

That being said, this is my own blog and I’m not saying this directly to anyone in particular, so I decided to write my own responses to the opinions she presented. The author’s portions are excerpted in italics.

1: “How can you be moral without believing in God?”

The answer: Atheists are moral for the same reasons believers are moral: because we have compassion, and a sense of justice. Humans are social animals, and like other social animals, we evolved with some core moral values wired into our brains: caring about fairness, caring about loyalty, caring when others are harmed.

I agree that asking this question to atheists is a bit short-sighted for a number of reasons. First off, we should already know that according to naturalistic beliefs, human behaviors are supposedly adaptations that increase the chances of survival. Things that are beneficial to a group tend to persist in a flourishing species. So atheists would naturally turn to these sorts of answers when it comes to morality.

God created ALL people in His image. This means a moral sense was instilled in every one of us; it is built into our nature.

But this question is also short-sighted because as Christians, we should know a very simple and fundamental truth:God created ALL people in His image. This means a moral sense was instilled in every one of us; it is built into our nature. So whether or not someone believes in God is independent of whether they have a basic moral code. True, specific moral duties and responsibilities may differ (hint: when the Bible explicitly commands us to do something, it’s usually because we naturally do not want to do them).  But we all have a basic sense of right or wrong. The question is, how do we objectively define what’s right or wrong?

You have to wonder, from a naturalistic perspective, if morals are simply an adaptation to promote survival, why not kill off unproductive members of the herd? Why bother taking care of the elderly or even barren women? Why not save our resources instead of taking care of handicapped individuals who can give nothing back? What practical benefit is there to some of these “good” deeds? As Christians, we know that every person has intrinsic worth as an image-bearer of God, but what value is there from a naturalistic standpoint?

And if someone disagrees with your sense of “good,” what right do you have to condemn them for it? If Hitler thought he was making the world a better place by killing Jews, how can we prove that he’s wrong and we’re right? Apart from some higher objective standard, we can’t. But if we’re truly honest with ourselves, we know deep in our bones that killing humans is wrong, and it’s not just some arbitrary adaptation ingrained in us over time.

What’s so special about human survival anyway? From the environment’s perspective, we are actually bad for the health of this planet, and doesn’t the planet’s needs take higher priority than our own? Since it is home to every other creature we know about, maybe it’s not right to exhibit this form of species-ism. Maybe we should depopulate…war and killing could be of great practical benefit to the world.

I could go on and on about this, but I think the point has been made. We are all made to be moral creatures, but only with God as an objective standard can it really become something more than just some arbitrary result of probability and undirected adaptation.

2: “How do you have any meaning in your life?” Sometimes asked as, “Don’t you feel sad or hopeless?” Or even, “If you don’t believe in God or heaven, why don’t you just kill yourself?”

The answer: Atheists find meaning and joy in the same things everyone does. We find it in the big things: family, friendship, work, nature, art, learning, love. We find it in the small things: cookies, World of Warcraft, playing with kittens. The only difference is that (a) believers add “making my god or gods happy and getting a good deal in the afterlife” to those lists (often putting them at the top), and (b) believers think meaning is given to them by their god or gods, while atheists create our own meaning, and are willing and indeed happy to accept that responsibility.

We Christians find joy in a lot of those same things as well, and indeed, we believe a lot of them were given to us by God for the very purpose of making life on this earth more bearable.

we would love to accept the “responsibility” of creating “our own meaning.”

But enjoying something is a far cry from having a deeper, firmer sense of purpose. And trust me, as humans with prideful desires, we would love to accept the “responsibility” of creating “our own meaning.” Who wouldn’t? It’s fun to play boss. But at the same time, we have come to grips that living like this is just playing an empty game. In the end, it’s all pointless apart from a greater purpose.

From the atheists’ point of view, the purpose in life is to enjoy every moment and to derive “meaning” in relationships and activities. But if you think about it, this sense of meaning is completely illusory. If humans are nothing but a collection of matter, randomly thrown together for no apparent purpose or design, then why are your family and friends special? Why are nature and art to be admired when they’re just an accident of impersonal and random forces?

What is “love” from a naturalistic purpose? Isn’t it simply a means to reproduce and to increase the chances of successfully raising offspring? Well, in modern day America, I think it’s safe to say that very few children die of starvation, even without monogamous parenting, so why not spread our seed as widely as possible? Why bother with marriage or commitment anymore?

If atheists are always accusing Christians of living in a fantasy world, I think it’s time that they come to grips with the illusions and mental tricks they are playing on themselves. Their sense of meaning and purpose are parlor tricks, and the prominent atheist Nietzsche is an example of someone who honestly understood these implications. He seemed to grasp that with the “death of God,” objective truth must necessarily break down. What’s ironic and sad is that while he referred to Christianity as a depressing and pitiful belief system, he himself ended up suffering a mental breakdown.

As for the last part of the question (“why don’t you just kill yourself?”), I really hope no one says this to an atheist. Apart from being cold-hearted or gimmicky at best (in trying to make some kind of poignant point), it is useless to wish death upon someone, especially if there is still time and a chance for them to find God. Better late than never.

3: “Doesn’t it take just as much/even more faith to be an atheist as it does to be a believer?”

The answer: No.

The somewhat longer answer: This question assumes that “atheism” means “100% certainty that God does not exist, with no willingness to question and no room for doubt.” For the overwhelming majority of people who call ourselves atheists, this is not what “atheism” means. For most atheists, “atheism” means something along the lines of “being reasonably certain that there are no gods,” or, “having reached the provisional conclusion, based on the evidence we’ve seen and the arguments we’ve considered, that there are no gods.” No, we can’t be 100% certain that there are no gods. We can’t be 100% certain that there are no unicorns, either. But we’re certain enough. Not believing in unicorns doesn’t take “faith.” And neither does not believing in God.

Ah, the good ol’ unicorns comparison to God, as if they were on equal levels as far as logic and evidence would direct us. But I won’t go into that now because I think I touch upon it frequently in some of my posts. The short version is this: we have solid and defensible reasons to believe in the existence of God; there are no such reasons to believe in the existence of unicorns. Itt sure does make a catchy (and extremely popular) argument, though.

Anyhow, I largely disagree with the author’s assessment that atheism doesn’t take the same (or greater) measure of faith as being a believer in, say, Jesus Christ. The honest answer should be “yes,” and let me explain.

As Christians, we have come to the conclusion that there is a specific God based on a number of influences and sources. These things can range from emotional leadings to stone-cold logic. Archeology and even science can lead some to the conclusion that there is a god. For example, Dr. Francis Collins—a prominent geneticist who led the Human Genome Project—believes that our DNA is actually the “language of God” and cannot be explained by purely naturalistic means. And yes, sometimes people believe without deeper investigation, but that’s usually because the existence of God seems so inherently obvious to them that they don’t feel a burning need to look deeper. While I would much prefer Christians to be better informed about their faith and able to defend their faith more competently (as the Bible even exhorts us to do), it’s hard to fault them too much for trusting their intuitions and common sense. In the end, we come to a conclusion we feel is reasonable, although there is that little hop of faith left on our part.

atheists believe that a lot of the things we know and feel intuitively are not objective or real at all

Now, with atheism, a similar track is usually followed. They emotionally feel things that turn them away from religion, such as anger at abuses in the church or judgmental attitudes. Perhaps it’s an abusive religious father or even strong homosexual tendencies that make the Bible’s teachings against this behavior highly objectionable to them. (This builds in an added incentive for such atheists to believe the Bible is wrong because its truth would put them in an uncomfortable spot. Perhaps that’s what motivated the author of this article, who happens to be a lesbian.) Then there is some form of “logical” thinking that takes place that utilizes catchy arguments to make the Bible seem ridiculous (but to be honest, I have yet to see any line of reasoning that holds up to any deeper scrutiny). Archeology says that a certain detail from the Bible cannot be corroborated (yet), and then science seems to take away the “need” for God, even if nothing directly contradicts His existence. Then, there is the apparent obviousness in thoughts like, “if there really were a God, why wouldn’t He show Himself? Why would there still be evil in the world?” With these seemingly reasonable lines of evidence, the last little hop of faith takes place when they trust their own intuitions and the conclusions of other people in published works or speeches, even if they could feasibly be wrong. Apparently, a smart-sounding and somewhat condescending British accent also helps greatly. The sad truth of the matter is that a mocking and sarcastic tone often comes with a built-in aura of superior intellect, for some reason.

Furthermore, atheists believe that a lot of the things we know and feel intuitively are not objective or real at all. They believe that the entire universe and life within it is nothing but a big cosmic coincidence, devoid of any purpose or design. They believe that science is conclusive and true, despite having a track history of being wrong and needing revision. They believe that anything that feels objectionable to them must be false, even though these feelings cannot be reliable as beacons of truth if they are merely adaptations for survival. They believe that fulfilled prophecies are merely math-defying coincidences or that they were manipulated in some way—even without any evidence of tampering. They will believe radically fringe ideas such as “Jesus never even existed” sooner than they will believe the words of first-hand witnesses who were martyred without recanting.

So yea, it’s not so ridiculous to say that it takes “the same (or greater) measure of faith” to be an atheist.

4: “Isn’t atheism just a religion?”

Calling atheism a religion assumes that it’s an axiom accepted on faith, not a conclusion based on thinking and evidence. And it shows that you’re not willing or able to consider the possibility that someone not only has a different opinion about religion than you do, but has come to that opinion in a different way.

This one is much like #3, so I’ll just quickly say that a religion can involve thinking and evidence as well (or at least from what I’ve seen, Christianity can). And truthfully, from what I’ve encountered, atheists don’t seem like the most “willing or able” to consider that they’re wrong either…not even on clear and simple points! Read any back-and-forth between a believer and an atheist and you’ll see a willing blindness to even acknowledge a legitimate point made. So this accusation goes right back to the author of this article.

5: “What’s the point of atheist groups? How can you have a community and a movement for something you don’t believe in?”

The answer: Atheists have groups and communities and movements for the same reasons anyone does. Remember what I said about atheists being human? Humans are social animals. We like to spend time with other people who share our interests and values. We like to work with other people on goals we have in common. What’s more, when atheists come out about our atheism, many of us lose our friends and families and communities, or have strained and painful relationships with them. Atheists create communities so we can be honest about who we are and what we think, and still not be alone.

I think this answer is very legitimate and well spoken. Humans were made to be social creatures by design because we are not to fight this fight (of life) alone.

I suspect, however, that it’s also fun to get together and mock religious types. I can’t say this for all atheist groups, but it’s hard to imagine them feeling much genuine sympathy for the rest of us, whereas Christians earnestly pray for nonbelievers all the time…sometimes with tears. I watched a video of four prominent atheists gathered in one room talking to each other, and it felt like a big religion-bashing fest where all parties involved were highly amused and reveling in each other’s apparent brilliance and wit.

And again, if atheists believe they are doing meaningful work, they need to be truly honest with themselves. If their efforts are at all difficult or costly, they really shouldn’t waste their time and energy on it. Why champion a cause if it takes away from their own resources and enjoyment? The world around them is just a fleeting and random collection of matter. In fact, it’s all steadily leading toward maximum entropy and will cease to exist eventually. There are no REAL concerns of lasting consequence. What difference does it make to them personally what others believe if they believe we’re all just going to die and return to dust anyway? It’s an exercise in futility if you ask me.

At least the social aspects mentioned by the author give us a more realistic, honest, and digestible answer to help us understand.

6: “Why do you hate God?” Or, “Aren’t you just angry at God?”

The answer: Atheists aren’t angry at God. We don’t think God exists. We aren’t angry at God, any more than we’re angry at Santa Claus.

And honestly? This question reveals how narrow your own mind is. It shows that you can’t even consider the possibility that you might be mistaken: that you can’t even conceive of somebody seeing the world differently from the way you do. This question doesn’t just make atheists mad. It makes you look like a dolt.

I think it’s disingenuous to completely deny this point, but I could be mistaken. Quite frankly, this is a line that atheists can stick to until death and there’s really no concrete way to prove that they’re angry at God (and they know it).

They seem to hate or mock God’s laws

Maybe we’re all wrong about them. Maybe their way of expressing themselves is different from all other forms of human interaction I’ve ever seen. To me, name-calling, rolling eyes, and biting sarcasm directed at God usually indicate some form of emotion…dare I say, anger or bitterness. But what do I know?

They seem to hate or mock God’s laws. They ridicule passages from the Bible that seem outdated or absurd. They ask questions like, “Where was God when…?” And not in a purely speculative or investigative way, either. You’ll notice that error found in other areas rarely evoke the same amount of impassioned speech and mockery that surround religious discussion. Why is this?

I don’t buy that they’re only angry at the believer, not an “imaginary God.” Much of the time, the believer has good intentions, so are you telling me you just get THAT angry when someone disagrees with you or doesn’t see things the way you see it?

If atheists weren’t angry with God on some level, you’d expect a much different tone from them than what you actually see. I also find the author’s accusation of narrow-mindedness and being a “dolt” puzzling considering her own choice of words.

7: “But have you [read the Bible or some other holy book; heard about some supposed miracle; heard my story about my personal religious experience]?”

The answer: Probably. Or else we’ve read/heard about something pretty darned similar. Atheists are actually better-informed about religion than most religious believers. In fact, we’re better-informed about the tenets of most specific religions than the believers in those religions. For many atheists, sitting down and reading the Bible (or the holy text of whatever religion they were brought up in) is exactly what set them on the path to atheism — or what put the final nail in the coffin.

Why you shouldn’t ask it: As my friend and colleague Heina put it: “‘Have you heard of Jesus?’ No, actually, I was born under a f**king rock.”

There are some interesting and semi-valid points given here.

First off, atheists did not become atheists by accident. They had to weigh information and decide to be that way, so of course they will already know some of the basic truths of religion. Asking them these simplistic things can come across and obvious and insulting. I concede that point.

As for whether atheists tend to be better-informed about religion than most religious believers…

I’d have to say yes and no.

Yes, they may have spent more time reading the scriptures or doing such highly academic exercises such as using Google to read the opinions of others. Sadly, many believers know precious little about the very truths they are staking their entire life and eternity on.

So far:       Atheists’ knowledge of the Bible > Casual/young believer’s knowledge

Then an interesting factor comes into play here. On a spiritual level, that factor is the Holy Spirit and “scales” falling off of our eyes. But even on a human level, there is another important differentiator: passion and motivation.

Imagine on one side, you have an atheist who thinks Christianity is foolishness. On the other, you have a curious and thorough Christian who wants to know God to the deepest level possible. Who do you think will understand the Bible better?

The atheist comes across a difficult passage, and already assuming that the Bible is flawed and man-made, he immediately concludes that the passage is in error. It’s a contradiction or an oversight. Then he laughs about it, but does his diligence in remembering the details so that he can equip it in his next argument with a Christian. At this point, he can already stump the ho-hum Christian who knows nothing of the Bible.

The motivated Christian comes across the same passage and feels conflicted about it. How can that make sense when it sounds so off? Then, he remembers a related passage, perhaps 1,000 pages later that adds another layer to consider. Then he checks cross-references, commentaries, and draw upon his deep well of understanding to finally decipher the true meaning of the passage. It now makes sense and is crystal clear. Through this deep probing, he now has a better sense of the truth and even God’s character, even if the final conclusion is much different than what he initially thought or expected.

In the end, this Christian has a far better understanding of the passage than the atheist does. Why is that? It’s not because of superior intelligence, but it’s because of his motivation and willingness to stretch his thinking to allow truths to come to him rather than dictate things with his own intuitions and biases. It’s his humility and deep desire to know God that opens up the words on the page to him. Otherwise, they would remain hidden.

Before you scoff at this idea, you should know that this applies in a lot of other areas as well—for instance, simple things like sports or even frivolous things like video games. *Warning: Geek speak is about to follow, so you may want to tune out.

You could be the smartest guy out there, and even naturally gifted at video games. You could quickly excel to a certain point without a ton of effort. But unless you actually care about a game and devote yourself to it on a deeper level, you will never unlock your true potential in it.

People who have never been at an elite level in gaming (or other areas) will find this hard to understand and agree with, but it’s true. Lots of capable gamers will try out a game, see what they recognize to be an obvious flaw or limitation, and decide not to play it competitively. They write it off as shallow and unworthy of their efforts.

atheists fail to see the deeper level of truth beneath the surface. That’s because they assume there isn’t any.

But the dedicated gamer will go deeper. He will see what looks like an “unfair” flaw and discover ways around it. What seemed like a broken imbalance is now just one mechanic that has been solved and pushed aside. Then other mechanics are discovered underneath. A deeper, richer game is uncovered for this gamer, but it never would have happened if he was haughty and decided the game was as simple as it first appeared.

(When it comes to the Street Fighter series, I could go on and on about frame data, spacing, the meta game, P-linking, conditioning your opponent…but you get the gist by now. It’s never just as simple as the characters you see on the screen.)

In the same way, atheists fail to see the deeper level of truth beneath the surface. That’s because they assume there isn’t any. They also overestimate the power of their intelligence, as if they should be able to immediately crack any code presented before them.

Here’s a news flash: no one is as smart as they think they are. (I’m constantly reminded of this, which is one of the useful, humbling quirks of marriage.) Here’s another one: If the Bible was inspired by God, do you really expect to be able to figure it all out with a few hours, months, or even years of half-blinded study? Even if it were man-made, scholars over many centuries have written countless volumes about the Bible that would astonish you in their complexity. Are you in a position to top that? If you can’t master Shakespeare in a couple of years, what makes you think you’d be able to master something this comprehensive and grand?

I can honestly tell you that every time I read a passage after not reading it for a while, I see something new jump out of the page. And that’s with passages I’ve read numerous times before! How much more complex would it be to piece together the entirety of the Bible logically and theologically? I can tell you right now, from what I’ve seen, the more you know, the more it fits…often in ways you never expected.

The conclusion is this: unless an atheist somehow had the right mindset (and the Holy Spirit’s guidance) while poring through the pages of scripture, it’s erroneous to say that they know it “better” than informed believers. It’s not their fault, but it’s just the reality.

8: “What if you’re wrong?” Sometimes asked as, “Doesn’t it make logical sense to believe in God? If you believe and you’re wrong, nothing terrible happens, but if you don’t believe and you’re wrong, you could go to Hell!”

What if you’re wrong about Allah? Or Vishnu? Or Zeus? What if you’re wrong about whether God is the wrathful jerk who hates gay people, or the loving god who hates homophobes? What if you’re wrong about whether God wants you to celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday or Sunday? What if you’re wrong about whether God really does care about whether you eat bacon? As Homer Simpson put it, “What if we picked the wrong religion? Every week we’re just making God madder and madder!”

Are you really that ignorant of the existence of religions other than your own? Has it really never occurred to you that when you “bet” on the existence of your god, there are thousands upon thousands of other gods whose existence you’re “betting” against?

I agree that using Pascal’s Wager as the sole or primary argument to believe in God is a foolish exercise. In my opinion, it can’t be completely discarded, but there are a lot of other considerations that all contribute to making a firm commitment.

there is a good reason to believe Christianity is the real truth

Yes, Christians are “betting” on our God in some sense, but it’s not a blind bet at a roulette table full of equally appealing choices. For some of us, it’s a weighed and informed decision that appears more and more in our favor as we inform ourselves.

Again, I go into a lot of this stuff in my other posts, but there is a good reason to believe Christianity is the real truth as opposed to the other religions. In fact, a little effort quickly reveals how shockingly little credibility any other religion has.

It’s not a simple game of luck we’re playing. Like any reasonable person, we learn what we can and make the best decision based on what we know.

9: “Why are you atheists so angry?”

The answer: I’ve actually written an entire book answering this question (Why Are You Atheists So Angry? 99 Things That Piss Off the Godless). The short answer: Not all atheists are angry about religion — and those of us who are angry aren’t in a constant state of rage. But yes, many atheists are angry about religion — and we’re angry because we see terrible harm being done by religion. We’re angry about harm being done to atheists… and we’re angry about harm done to other believers. We don’t just think religion is mistaken — we think it does significantly more harm than good. And it pisses us off.

Organized religion has indeed done many wrongs in this world. The church is not exempt from this unfortunate fact. But none of these wrongs were directly in line with God’s will or the scriptures. They were a result of manmade institutions and corruptions due to the flesh. If you’re going to get mad about something, get mad at what we humans have molded religion to be.

But being mad about these transgressions is wholly separate from the truth of God’s Word. Furthermore, you might as well be constantly mad at everything and everyone because nothing is exempt from great sin.

Heck, I’m glad to be an American but does it make sense to continually stew in anger at my countrymen because of the corruptions in our government? Or to hate white people for the injustices committed against people of other races and the indigenous people on this continent?

We’re ALL at fault in some way because we are all wretched sinners. That doesn’t change the truth of the gospel one bit. Using past wrongs to justify unbelief is not only a cop-out, it’s logically incoherent.

Filed Under: Opinions and Editorials Tagged With: angry, atheists, insulting, questions

No One Even Noticed I left!

January 9, 2012 By R. Brad White 2 Comments

One theme I occasionally hear when talking with Ex-Christians and atheists is how when they left the church, no one even noticed. And when I say “left the church”, it initially could be for non-spiritual reasons such as a job change or a cross country move. It can also be for spiritual reasons such as dissatisfaction with or disagreement with their current church.

Do we care enough to reach out to someone who has left? 1 John 4:11 “Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.” What better way to love someone who has left than to take notice and reach out to them?

Everyone wants to feel like they are important and are missed. But when people don’t notice, it leaves an empty feeling in our souls. It reinforces spiritual doubts about the legitimacy of our faith. In other words, do we truly care for one another as we are taught to do?  Do we care enough to reach out to someone who has left? 1 John 4:11 “Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.” What better way to love someone who has left than to take notice and reach out to them?

Are the leavers to blame?

Now, I have strong feelings about those who leave and aren’t missed by those left behind. I believe those that leave deserve at least part of the blame. I’ve been within a church, and left, and felt like I wasn’t missed. But in that church, I never got involved. I never volunteered. And I didn’t seek to become connected in any sub-surface relationships with others within the church. So, who did I allow to know me at a level that would notice if I suddenly stopped coming? It was my fault, at least in part.

 But, let’s not use that example to excuse our part of the blame. The theme I have heard from many ex-Christians is that they left, and they expected to be noticed…and ended up disappointed. We as a faith or as a congregation failed to notice or do anything about it. This disappointment reinforces their lack of faith in a loving God who takes notice of them.

Are we just lazy or unloving?

Now, let’s shed light on an unspoken truth here. Many people DO notice, but far too few take the time to do or say anything about it. We’re lazy. Or maybe we think someone else has probably reached out and that our doing so is not necessary. It’s someone else’s job like the pastor right? Not!

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has left, and then someone calls or emails and says “hey, I haven’t seen you around. How are you?” Suddenly, you feel important, noticed, and loved. That’s the impact we can have on one another if we simply go from noticing, to saying or doing something about it. And in a spiritual sense, we reinforce the person’s faith in God that they are loved and He cares about them.  What we should do about it?

How to love the leavers

So, here is my call to action for you. Has someone left your church? Have you taken notice of someone you used to see in the hallways that you no longer see? Reach out to them in some way. Connect with them on Facebook. Call them or email them and simply let them know you noticed their absence. Let them know you care. Be a bridge of God’s love to them. By doing so, you will help change the face of Christianity and positively impact their faith in God at the same time.

Filed Under: Opinions and Editorials Tagged With: atheists, emotional scars, faith, God, love

Frequently Asked Questions: An Interview with R. Brad White

November 3, 2011 By R. Brad White Leave a Comment

 What inspired you to start Changing the Face of Christianity Inc?

God whispered in my ear several years ago that the face of Christianity needed to change. I felt called, and I have simply answered that call by saying YES to God. Our mission is to reverse negative Christian stereotypes (such as homophobia, intolerance, judgmentalism, hypocrisy, and others) by helping Christians be more like Jesus Christ.

God prepared me well for this enormous challenge. I was an atheist for much of my adult life, yet raised in a Christian home. So I’ve seen Christianity from the outside and inside. Although many Christians are living their faith and bringing glory to God, there are far too many so-called Christians who dishonor God through their lives.

Non-Christians use the negative stereotypes we are trying to reverse as a convenient stumbling block to accepting our faith.

Non-Christians use the negative stereotypes we are trying to reverse as a convenient stumbling block to accepting our faith. I see traditional evangelism efforts falling short because most outsiders have already made their mind up because of the poor witness of Christians they know. As a secondary goal, we are trying to prepare the field (through Christians being a better witness of Jesus Christ through how we live), so that future evangelism efforts are met with openness and a positive Christian experience.

But to be clear, our main objective is not to evangelize and bring people into the faith. There are countless organizations already doing this much better than we can do. We are focused on building up those already in the faith. Helping Christians mature and transform into Christ-likeness is the key. We do believe our efforts will lead to more people accepting the faith. You bring them in, and we help build them up into mature Christians who glorify God and truly change the face of Christianity that outsiders see.

 

 What has been the response?

The overwhelming response has been positive. But as with any organization or public position, there are those that disagree or think we are off the mark. We take the negative opinions with an open heart and an open mind. We are teachable…just like we expect other Christians to be. However, we won’t allow people who oppose us to deter us from our goal.

The people who support us agree that there are far too many people out there giving Christianity a bad name…which dishonors God.

The people who oppose us think we are just trying to be culturally relevant or watering down Christianity until the masses think it’s palatable. It’s been difficult to change their minds, but they couldn’t be more wrong. We call Sin, Sin. We don’t water down the truth of the Gospel. However, our firm belief is that we can be a Christian faith that holds strongly to our essential core beliefs…yet still loves other people who don’t live or believe as we do.

Here is one of the more controversial examples of the divide that exists. As Christians, we believe that homosexuality is a sin. You’ll never hear us say anything to the contrary. However, how should Christians treat a homosexual? Should we reject the person? Should we not try to relate to them and understand them…so that we can reach them? Should we ridicule them and shut them out of our churches? Should we kick them out of our homes and families? My opinion is no.

We should first and foremost LOVE them. Love bridges the gap between our attitudes and beliefs about homosexuals. The problem is…homosexuals don’t feel loved. They simply feel rejected. REJECTED. And it goes deeper than that. PEOPLE are rejecting them, but they feel rejected by God too. Because of what WE do to them, they feel that GOD doesn’t love them or care for them. When we take on the role of Judge on behalf of God (a role we have never been given), we send the wrong message in my opinion.

There are those that say they SHOULD be rejected because of their sin. This is where the conflict arises. You can’t reject them INTO the faith. Rejecting them won’t influence them to BE different. Love is the only way. And to speak frankly about it…we suck at loving the unlovable. In everyday practice, most Christians find it virtually impossible to hate the sin but love the sinner. Instead, what homosexuals experience is both hating the sin and feeling hated as a person. 

I’ve made this point many times. We all sin. And homosexuality is just one of many sins in this fallen world.

I’ve made this point many times. We all sin. And homosexuality is just one of many sins in this fallen world. If we rejected and kicked out of our churches and families everyone who held onto a sin…any sin…our churches would be abandoned and empty. It is only through God’s grace and mercy that any of us can stand in His presence. We all struggle with something. And only through the power of the Holy Spirit are we able to change. We believe that welcoming these people with open loving arms increases the chances that the Holy Spirit can work in their lives.

But, back to your question about the response. Again, most people are incredibly supportive and feel that we are echoing their beliefs and attitudes about what must change within our Christian faith.

 

What have you discovered since starting CFC?

There are many Christians out there that are disgusted with what they see happening within our Christian faith. Pastors are molesting children, elders are falling into moral temptation, churches are attempting cover-ups, we see snake-oil televangelists, and overly political Christian attention seekers. Those get everyone’s attention, and unfortunately help us take the focus off of ourselves. There are far fewer Christians willing to look at themselves and seek to change through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I’ve heard stories about incredibly unchristian behavior from your average Sunday churchgoer. Such as a Campus Crusade group, or fellowship of Christian athletes group beating up or threatening someone who wasn’t willing to pray with them or convert, and people going through a divorce feeling shunned and judged instead of loved. I’ve witnessed “evangelism” conversations on facebook between Christians and non-Christians that pushed the non-Christians further away right before my very eyes.

Most of all, I’ve discovered Christians who so desperately want to SAY something to a non-Christian that they aren’t willing to LISTEN to them. Instead of earning the right to witness to them by first building a relationship, I’ve seen ineffective Christians shot down in flames because the person in front of them was treated like a manipulatable object instead of a real person.

We should evangelize, but mostly through how we live our lives. It appears we are ill-equipped to do so effectively. At Changing the Face of Christianity, we hope to change that over the long term.

 

What have non-believers or atheists said in regards to your organization?

It’s been interesting. The non-believers and atheists who catch the vision of what we are trying to accomplish cheer us on. They are incredibly happy that our organization is working to make a difference within the faith. Many of the atheists that we have met are FORMER Christians…or at least people who grew up in Christian homes who would have called themselves Christians at some point in their earlier lives. In many cases, these are the outspoken people who have been negatively impacted by the negative Christian stereotypes we are trying to reverse. Again, a secondary goal of our ministry is to help keep these people within the faith before they feel compelled to leave. There is a lot of work to be done in this area.

In reference to our primary goal of reversing negative Christian stereotypes, some tell us it’s a lost cause and we are wasting our time, and that Christianity and all religions need to disappear from the face of the earth. Effectively they are saying we are un-savable, so why try? 

The biggest disappointment I’ve faced in talking with atheists is the incredible animosity and lack of trust that exists between us. We’ve earned the mistrust. And the animosity is a result

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The biggest disappointment I’ve faced in talking with atheists is the incredible animosity and lack of trust that exists between us. We’ve earned the mistrust. And the animosity is a result. For example, the lead sentence of most Christians in conversation with an atheist is “you are going to burn in hell.” That may be true (only God knows who is in His book of Life), but do you think presenting the Gospel in such an antagonistic way is going to warm them to the faith?

Some Christians engage in a “relationship” with a non-believer for the sole purpose of converting them. And once the job is done or they give up, the relationship is OVER! I.e. There was no relationship. They were just manipulating them without true love for the person. People see right through this disingenuous tactic and it reinforces the stereotype that we don’t truly love people. I engage with atheists for the relationship first. And if my life and example influences them positively toward the faith, then I’ve done my job.

 

Why is it important to look at ourselves before going out and evangelizing?

Because our credibility is actually important to those being evangelized to. If we don’t practice what we preach, why would someone want to join us? The Gospel does transcend our own behaviors. In other words, even if we don’t live up to the ideal we present, this shouldn’t stop us from witnessing to others.

However, consider an obese person trying to convince you to adopt a particular diet to lose weight. You would reject it and rightly so. Even if the diet works and was full of truth, you would dismiss it because of the messenger. So, metaphorically speaking, in the Christian faith we have a diet which works and is full of truth, but the people out selling it (evangelizing) are grossly overweight.  We need to shed some pounds before the message we want to share is credible and believable. Live a life consistent with the message and although there are still some that will dismiss it as a hoax, the “diet” has more likelihood of being adopted.

 

I like the section on “Christians Doing Good”. How important is that?

When we started Changing the Face of Christianity, I felt it was important to present not just the bad things we do (trying to educate and convict people of the need to change), but also to present the clearly good things we do. There are so many Christians in the world doing so much good. I don’t position it as a “hey, look at us doing good”. God’s word says we should do good but don’t call attention to it for our own glory. If we do, we have already received our reward in full. However, I position it in terms of what some Christians have done, that others can take and repeat. I look for working models from one community that others can learn and apply in their own community.

I think this is very important. People are always asking the question “what can I do?” There are people out there doing it. And so if we can spread the word, help others connect with them, and encourage others to carry it forward, then we can make a difference in this world.

 

Do you feel the tabs you have on your menu (judgmental, intolerant, hypocritical, homophobic, etc…) open up the conversation about the Christian perception mission, and vision for the future of the Christian nation?

 We are humbly shining a spotlight on our own weakness and then saying “let’s do something about it together.”

The tabs are intentionally “in your face” when you come to the site (www.changingthefaceofchristianity.com). We want to stand out as different from your average Christian ministry…because we are different. We aren’t hiding our imperfections. We are humbly shining a spotlight on our own weakness and then saying “let’s do something about it together.” It has opened up conversations that otherwise wouldn’t have happened, and we hope it opens up more in the future.

 

Tell us about the Christianity Quiz and how folks can take it.

You can take the Christianity Quiz at http://www.ChristianityQuiz.com. It’s a short, 10 question self-assessment to determine how Christian you are. Instead of quizzing on things like Bible trivia or academic theology, we’ve created a quiz that evaluates the Christian believer’s thoughts, words, and actions in light of scripture and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Do your thoughts, words, and actions indicate you are a spiritually mature Christian? Or do they indicate you are far from Christ, worldly, or just a “good” Christian?

First take the quiz and see your own personals results. Then, see the results from everyone else here: https://changingthefaceofchristianity.com/insider-news/christianity-quiz-results-sign-up

We created the quiz to be a catalyst for positive change within our faith. If you score highly on the quiz, it means you are generally presenting a positive Christian image to the world by consistently living your faith. If you score lower on the quiz, it indicates there is some conflict between the teachings of Jesus Christ, Christian beliefs, and how you think and act in the real world. If you don’t score so well, we encourage you to recommit to living your life as a worthy disciple of Jesus Christ. That will take hard work and submitting to the Holy Spirit. Let us know how we can help you in that growth and maturity process.

 

What’s your favorite Bible verse and why?

I have several.

Mark 12:30-31 “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength.’  The second is: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.”

This is my favorite verse because it’s what Jesus Christ said are the two MOST important commandments. So, if I’m not doing this…then nothing else really matters.

Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding.”

No matter how much I learn or grow in the faith, my first priority is to trust in the Lord and walk in faith in Him. When I think myself wise, that’s when I know I’m in trouble.

When I was an atheist, I completely rested on my own understanding. I couldn’t acknowledge what I didn’t understand, namely spiritual things. Now, I use this verse to keep me humble. No matter how much I learn or grow in the faith, my first priority is to trust in the Lord and walk in faith in Him. When I think myself wise, that’s when I know I’m in trouble.

1 John 3:18 “Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.”

Love is a verb. Do it.

 

Anything you want to add?

I want to encourage your audience to be a part of the solution. Visit our site, learn from the articles and stories we share, share your thoughts and comments, and help us change the face of Christianity.

Together, through God’s power and will, we can make a difference. And as a 501 (C) 3 non-profit, we need your financial support. If you believe in our cause, then please consider a donation to help us continue our work. http://giftworkslive.com/Donations/DonateNow/MRLAU7TAACY2WPM3J4RM

Finally, we can’t make a difference alone. Please share our ministry and mission with others and encourage others to get involved.

We see church small groups as a key avenue for growing mature Christians. We are piloting a new method for doing small groups that moves people from simply studying our faith to living it. If you lead or are in a small church group, contact us for more information at  https://changingthefaceofchristianity.com/about/contact-us

Filed Under: Christian News and Insights Tagged With: atheists, Christian News and Insights, interviews

An Atheist Call for Christian Compassion

May 23, 2011 By Joel Justiss 55 Comments

Joel Justiss

A Christian Beginning-Finding My Purpose

I learned compassion from my parents. Inspired by experience as a houseparent in an orphans’ home, my father made a career in child welfare. When I was a child, many of our dinner-table conversations began with a story of an abused or neglected child. One of my father’s favorite scriptures was James 1:27 (NLT), “Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.”

As I pondered my personal mission, it seemed that God was calling me to help people see his goodness and regain confidence in him.

Late in my Christian life, I looked for a focus for my own ministry. I wanted to concentrate my efforts in an area I was passionate about that would use my skills and inspire my enthusiasm.

On numerous occasions such as in Sunday school classes, at retreats, in public testimonies and personal conversations, I observed other Christians confessing they often felt unloved by God and they had difficulty trusting him. Though certainly not an exemplary model of faith, I never lacked confidence in his love and I seemed to find it easier to trust God than most of the people I encountered.

As I pondered my personal mission, it seemed that God was calling me to help people see his goodness and regain confidence in him. I saw this as a ministry to believers, but even more to unbelievers. I felt that if non-Christians could be made aware of God’s longing to fill their lives with peace and joy, their barriers to faith would be broken down and they would open their hearts completely to him.

On a Mission to Demonstrate Evidence of God’s Love

So, I began looking for examples to demonstrate God’s care for the world. Christian professions of God’s love weren’t enough. Those professions needed to be supported by evidence within the church. If we failed to help people with their physical needs, non-Christians would be justified in feeling that our love was superficial and our concern was not for their welfare, but only in increasing our church attendance or “numbers”.

If we failed to help people with their physical needs, non-Christians would be justified in feeling that our love was superficial.

I was also aware that to influence non-believers, such love and genuine care for others needed to be associated with faith and selfless service to God. It couldn’t be a self-serving act you would expect from believers and non-believers alike. As Jesus points out in Matthew 5:45 (NIV), “He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

To build faith, demonstrations of love need to come through people helping others in service to God. And so I searched for evidence of this God honoring, selfless, compassionate service to others.

Discovering The Church’s Lack of Compassion

What I discovered was disappointing. The vast majority of church activities revolved around teaching rather than serving. In every church I encountered, relief of suffering was subordinate to indoctrination.

What I discovered was disappointing. The vast majority of church activities revolved around teaching rather than serving.

Even the meaning of the word “minister” has evolved to mean “preacher” rather than “servant.” Most churches reminded me more of the Pharisees than of Jesus. No church groups proved to be a recognizable representation of Jesus.

I then looked at church budgets. Again, I was disappointed to see that the great majority of church dollars were spent on church staff, property, and internal operations. Another portion of the church dollars supported external ministries, such as missionaries and their churches. Only a tiny scrap was given to relieve suffering among the poor and oppressed.

My wife and I wanted to shift the balance in our own way. To help demonstrate God’s love for the world, we began giving part of our tithe to Samaritan’s Purse. Samaritan’s Purse implements the model of the Bible story of the good Samaritan, and follows Jesus’ teaching to come to the aid of the world’s poor, sick, and suffering. These types of Christian organizations seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

Does God Care About the Poor?

Not long ago I posted a Facebook comment supporting health care financing reform. A friend commented that God intends for the church to help the poor, not the government. I responded that if that’s true, God apparently doesn’t care much about the poor.

Let me explain. To be fair, some Christians make amazing sacrifices to relieve the suffering of others. However, I’ve observed a “body of Christ” that provides no convincing evidence that God has any interest in whether or not people have food, health, or freedom from exploitation.

A Church Too Focused on Evangelism

As a charismatic Christian, I believed that the Holy Spirit lived in every Christian, teaching and inspiring him or her to do God’s will.

I was troubled by the prevailing attitude among evangelical Christians that serving people’s needs was secondary to “saving them”.

I was troubled by the prevailing attitude among evangelical Christians that serving people’s needs was secondary to “saving them” through the Gospel.

I’ve often heard this attitude defended with the argument that the gospel offers eternal life, which is much more important than our present physical needs. I understand that perspective, but I am unconvinced that it justifies the church’s focus on evangelism over compassion and service.

I remain unconvinced of the approach for two reasons:

  1. I don’t feel suffering unbelievers are concerned about anything failing to improve their current lives. We need to provide what they know they need (food, shelter, human dignity) before offering something they don’t yet consider relevant (salvation).
  2. I feel that real love includes all aspects of life, not just the “spiritual” life. 1 John 3:17 says, “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?” When I see a Christian church having no pity on people in need, I have to ask the question…”Is the love of God IN the church and its people?” The evidence would suggest not.

Effect of Human Sin or Failure of the Holy Spirit?

In my 40 years observing the teaching and activities of a great variety of churches, I’ve seen a consistent pattern of neglect rather than compassion.

To me, it’s a failure on the part of the Holy Spirit.

I struggle to understand why after 2000 years the Holy Spirit hasn’t been more successful in teaching the church to be a better witness.

To me, this is not a trivial question explained away as an effect of human sin. To me, it’s a failure on the part of the Holy Spirit. It’s one of the unanswered questions that weakened my conviction of the truth of Christianity. It eventually contributed to the loss of my faith and belief in God.

In my view, the church will never be convincing in its professions of love for the world until it demonstrates real compassion for suffering people. I doubt this will ever happen. I see Christians as merely normal people, rather than “spirit filled” agents of a powerful, compassionate God.

A Call to Action

We can do better than we have done in the past:

So, here is a challenge and a call to action to Christians worldwide. Represent a compassionate God by truly serving those in need.

  • We can inspire each other to pay more attention to the plight of suffering people
  • We can work together to supply food to people who are chronically hungry
  • We can provide protection for exploited people so everyone can pursue a better life

So, here is a challenge and a call to action to Christians worldwide. Have compassion and pity on those less fortunate than yourself. But go several steps further. Turn those feelings of compassion into selfless action. Represent a compassionate God by truly serving those in need. Don’t just give your money. Give your life in sacrificial service to others as Jesus instructed. Then, and only then, will non-believers start to see evidence of a God worth believing in.

Epilogue: Why is an Atheist Writing for a Christian Website?

I’m here to help Christians understand why some people don’t believe in God.

Readers of Changing the Face of Christianity may understandably question the motivation of an atheist contributor to this site. I was pleased to accept an invitation to provide a non-believer’s perspective. As a former Christian, I observed much about Christian behavior that was inconsistent with my understanding of Christianity. I’m here to help Christians understand why some people don’t believe in God.

I was a Christian for over 40 years, and the great majority of my friends and family are Christians. I want them and you to understand that the loss of my faith was not a rebellion against God. It was due to a failure to find God, and a failure to see the gospel lived out among Christians.

I also want to make it clear that I speak only for myself. There is not one atheist viewpoint just like there is not one Christian viewpoint. Many non-religious people have very different attitudes and opinions than mine.

I see this ministry as a serious attempt to challenge Christians to greater thoughtfulness and integrity.

Even as a nonbeliever, I support and respect the goals of Changing the Face of Christianity. I see this ministry as a serious attempt to challenge Christians to greater thoughtfulness and integrity. I may not agree with your beliefs, but together we can improve the world we live in.

Filed Under: Opinions and Editorials Tagged With: atheists, Christians, compassion, faith, God, love, mercy

Who’s More Liberated: the Christian or the Non-Believer? – Special Report (Part 2 of 2)

February 4, 2011 By Brad 1 Comment

Who’s More Liberated? (Part 2 of 2) Read Part 1 for the beginning of the story…

Defining Freedom

The book of John in the New Testament is a wonderful book of truth. It is the story of Jesus’ life and Jesus’ message, as told from John’s perspective. In John 8:31-47, we see a story of Jesus getting into what amounts to an argument. And as arguments go, this one is most odd. Jesus is arguing with a group of Jews (God’s chosen people) who actually believe that Christ is who He says He is, and who actually want to listen to Him and hear what He has to say.

So how did Jesus see this bondage … or this slavery? He saw it as deception.

The point of disagreement arises however, when Jesus talks to them about who they are really the children of. In a nutshell, they see themselves has having a human ancestry – a rather pedigreed one at that. Jesus, on the other hand, sees them as slaves. He believes they lack basic liberties. Despite their claims, Jesus doesn’t agree that they are liberated people.

So how did Jesus see this bondage … or this slavery? He saw it as deception. In fact, it is here that we learn of one of the enemy’s (Satan) most basic forms of enslavement. It is here that we learn one of Satan’s most effective tools is to make people think they are free, when in fact they are slaves. They are in bondage to the vices of the world that they thought they were free to pursue. They’ve been deceived into believing that getting what you want, when you want it, is freedom. So if they get what they want when they want it, they conclude that they must be free indeed.

But Jesus defines freedom quite differently from the world’s standards. He says that our entire purpose in life is to, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all of your mind.” (Deuteronomy 6:5, Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, & Luke 10:27) Similarly, we are to, “Love others as we would like to be loved.” (Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 5:43, 19:19, 22:39, Mark 12:31, Luke 10:27, Romans 13:9, Galatians 5:14, and James 2:8)

Our entire purpose in life is to love God and love others.

Did you catch that? It’s the most important paragraph in this article. We were created. And the Creator defined our purpose. As such, He also defined our freedom. He defined our liberation.

Have you ever created anything? Perhaps you bake bread, or build furniture or sew. Whatever it is you create … consider how it functions. If you baked bread, for example, would it be just as good serving as a door stop? Or if you sew a dress, would it be just as good functioning as a mop? Of course not. Each of the things created is at its best when it serves the purpose for which it was created. Even a birthday cake, for example, would struggle to function as a wedding dress – or vice versa. And the Creator defines the purpose of His creation.  And in doing so, the Creator creates the definition of freedom or liberty for His creation.

True Freedom

Mankind was created by God. And our sole purpose is to serve God. We do that in two ways. First, we love the Lord with all our heart, soul and mind. We devote everything to Him and live with Him as our clearest focus and highest priority. Secondly, we love others. And we love them in the same way that He loves us. We love others the way we would ourselves like to be loved. This is the sole purpose of mankind on this earth. As such, it is the sole definition of freedom or liberty for mankind.

The problem comes into play when we are deceived. Or it occurs when we are simply ignorant. We are deceived about our purpose. Or we are ignorant of our purpose. This deception and ignorance are the work of the devil. They are the product of the fallen world around us.

Who is more liberated … the Christian or the non-believer? The answer to that question is…

Followers of Christ, however, are not to participate in the world’s values and its definitions. (Romans 12:2) Rather our true identity lies in our citizenship outside of this world. (Philippians 3:20) We are aliens on this planet earth (meaning this is not our homeland). God created mankind in His own image. (Genesis 1:27). Therefore we are first spiritual beings, on assignment to have a human experience here on earth. We are called to rise above the world’s ways, to seek after loftier (e.g. Godly) pursuits.

Conclusion

I started this article by asking the question, “Who is more liberated … the Christian or the non-believer?” The answer to that question is undeniably the Christian. When we grasp the true definition of what it means to be liberated … free and content, we understand that it means to live one’s own purpose. And the only people on earth who can do that are those who surrender their lives and submit themselves to God.

Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.” (John 14:6) Being the obstinate character that I am, I can confess to having tested that. And through my own experiential learning, I’ve come to understand that there is no truth apart from Jesus Christ. Said differently, truth gets its character from Christ. He is the source of what is known as absolute truth.

Whether Atheists know it or believe it or not, they are not free. Only Jesus Christ can set them free.

So being that Jesus is God and Jesus is truth, then Jesus is the only one capable of producing a true definition of freedom. He’s defined freedom as living our purpose … in serving Him and loving others as He would love them Himself.

So who is more liberated? The Christian or the non-believer? I said before that it is clearly the Christian. The closest that anyone will ever get to freedom outside of Christ is deception. The devil deceives non-believers with a counterfeit version of freedom. Make no mistake: the non-believer walks in total darkness – and in immense bondage. Whether they know it or believe it or not, they are not free. Only Jesus Christ can set them free.

Filed Under: Opinions and Editorials Tagged With: atheists, Christians, God

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